Leaving

[andesuma]

I won't be posting on this forum any more, because of its continued ridiculousness.

 

It seems hardly anyone wants to help or encourage anyone else,

Especially when it comes to raw foods.

 

I find it disappointing and extremely juvenile.

 

 

If anyone has any questions regarding a vegan diet, raw foods,

book recommendations, etc. Please feel free to contact me.

I will still be accessible via Myspace, but I won't be on this forum

any longer.

 

 

Thanks

[xveganjoshx]

It was the porn wasn't it? We're still trying to find some raw vegan porn, we'll let you know how it goes.

Just kidding.

 

Best of luck to you.

[xjohanx]

this sucks. you shouldn't leave!

[Couture547]

I won't be posting on this forum any more, because of its continued ridiculousness.

 

It seems hardly anyone wants to help or encourage anyone else,

Especially when it comes to raw foods.

 

I find it disappointing and extremely juvenile.

 

 

If anyone has any questions regarding a vegan diet, raw foods,

book recommendations, etc. Please feel free to contact me.

I will still be accessible via Myspace, but I won't be on this forum

any longer.

 

 

Thanks

 

I agree. allmost every thread about raw foods have people saying negitive things. Wether someone is a raw foodist or no it doesn't really make since to talk bad about eatting all raw foods. I think alot of the people that go out of there way to talk bad about the diet are the people that don't have the disipine to say on it

[JW]

I agree

people here obviously like to have fun but everyone is also very serious about health and fitness.

[Marcina]

I think raw food diets are awesome! I wanna learn more about them too. I bet if I ate more raw food I wouldn't have as many stomach issues..

[xjohanx]

I won't be posting on this forum any more, because of its continued ridiculousness.

 

It seems hardly anyone wants to help or encourage anyone else,

Especially when it comes to raw foods.

 

I find it disappointing and extremely juvenile.

 

 

If anyone has any questions regarding a vegan diet, raw foods,

book recommendations, etc. Please feel free to contact me.

I will still be accessible via Myspace, but I won't be on this forum

any longer.

 

 

Thanks

 

I agree. allmost every thread about raw foods have people saying negitive things. Wether someone is a raw foodist or no it doesn't really make since to talk bad about eatting all raw foods. I think alot of the people that go out of there way to talk bad about the diet are the people that don't have the disipine to say on it

 

that's a wide generalization you made there. i don't think "alot" of the people are like that, i think a very slight minority might be.

i personally thrive on a high protein diet and i get bashed for this all the time on vegan forums. i don't think that all the people who are against these types of diets are too "weak". you guys might feel good when eating raw. for me it sucks balls, i feel malnourished, hungry and weak when i'm on the diet. and my determination and discipline is mos def higher than most peoples.

[Richard]

Sorry that you've been upset and want to leave the site, I understand, I've taken time off from forums before, and quit others. Feel welcome to return at any time if you feel differently in the future. An ignore function would solve some of these problems, since you could block people who are upsetting you.

[Guest]

I think some people do go too far in attacks at the raw thing. I've been raw a few times and find that I do much better on it in the summer so I never knock raw foodism as a diet. I think you can perform just as well as anyone else on a raw diet. Hell I went raw for a summer believing the idea that you'll lose muscle on the diet...I did...but it was only 3lbs over a 3month period of eating 1500 calories a day. That basically proved to me that eating a raw diet is probably pretty easy to gain muscle on. That said...there are many morons in the raw food movement...as in any other dietary movement. There are many stupid things being pushed as healthy for the standard vegan diet...I'll point it out if I think so. Same goes for raw food.

[Im Your Man]

Tu vas nous manquer !

[andesuma]

Tu vas nous manquer !

 

Je m'ennuierai de vous ! voyez-vous sur le myspace !

[Lean and Green]

your presence will be sorely missed from my end. I found you to be a great person and always very knowledgeable. It's unfortunate when razzing goes too far. Being a fellow raw foodist, I brush it off with light humor and not feeding into it. Fighting is generally not my style. I can see how you get offended and it will be a shame to see you depart. You're always welcome in my book, for the future if anything ever changes......

 

see you on myspace.

[Couture547]

Yeah i allways liked your posts. You seemed like a very down to earth friendly girl

[Trev]

Sad to see you go, Andesuma! You were definitely a pillar of the raw topics. While I was never a regular poster in the raw section, and I've been taking a bit of a break from the whole forum in recent months, I've been a regular reader of the raw forum. I was always frustrated at the way threads seemed to be turned into arguments that pitted raw against non-raw. It's really too bad. I chose to stay out of it usually. The railing against raw, the negativity, and the self-righteous ego-tripping that occurred pushed me away for a while, pushed Suz away (and she hasn't been back). Big Bwii was driven away by the same people and the same childishness and I'm sure I'm not the only one missing his posts around here!

 

I've been raw on and off (my working life and travelling make it very difficult to maintain 100% of the time) but I can attest that my personal experience is that I've felt the best, and have been in the best shape of my life when raw. I'm still at least 60% raw, most of that being fruit.

 

As vegan athletes, we're already a pretty small percentage of the population. We already struggle daily with the SAD world around us - vegans should stand up for vegans, end of story. It shouldn't matter whether you cook your vegetables before you eat them, or not. It shouldn't matter whether you like to eat only fruits, or bricks of tofu. I think we should always remember why we're vegan in the first place.

 

Andesuma, I'd love to see you perservere, even if it means taking a little break from this forum.

 

-Trev

[andesuma]

Sad to see you go, Andesuma! You were definitely a pillar of the raw topics. While I was never a regular poster in the raw section, and I've been taking a bit of a break from the whole forum in recent months, I've been a regular reader of the raw forum. I was always frustrated at the way threads seemed to be turned into arguments that pitted raw against non-raw. It's really too bad. I chose to stay out of it usually. The railing against raw, the negativity, and the self-righteous ego-tripping that occurred pushed me away for a while, pushed Suz away (and she hasn't been back). Big Bwii was driven away by the same people and the same childishness and I'm sure I'm not the only one missing his posts around here!

 

I've been raw on and off (my working life and travelling make it very difficult to maintain 100% of the time) but I can attest that my personal experience is that I've felt the best, and have been in the best shape of my life when raw. I'm still at least 60% raw at least, most of that being fruit.

 

As vegan athletes, we're already a pretty small percentage of the population. We already struggle daily with the SAD world around us - vegans should stand up for vegans, end of story. It shouldn't matter whether you cook your vegetables before you eat them, or not. It shouldn't matter whether you like to eat only fruits, or bricks of tofu. I think we should always remember why we're vegan in the first place.

 

Andesuma, I'd love to see you perservere, even if it means taking a little break from this forum.

 

-Trev

 

 

Thank you so much for that sweet and honest reply!

It is very true... that is ALWAYS how I have felt as well.

 

I'd also like to point out that NONE of the negativity or negative/ridiculous

topics have been started by ANY raw foodists(me actually being one of the ONLY ones left..) . I think that says something.

Some people know when to bow out...

 

 

I've always felt like I could really help people on this forum, not

only thru knowledge but thru wisdom and my own personal experience

as well. Some people just don't want to take advice though.

They would rather act like 10 yr. old little boys with their egos

shoved up their asses.

(sorry, it's true.)

 

 

Anyhow, I won't feed into the negativity. I just don't like the way the raw food section is turning out...it's just getting worse.

And the fact that it's a CYCLE, it just keeps on going, is what leads to this decision.

[Odidnetne]

I won't be posting on this forum any more, because of its continued ridiculousness.

 

It seems hardly anyone wants to help or encourage anyone else,

Especially when it comes to raw foods.

 

I find it disappointing and extremely juvenile.

 

 

If anyone has any questions regarding a vegan diet, raw foods,

book recommendations, etc. Please feel free to contact me.

I will still be accessible via Myspace, but I won't be on this forum

any longer.

 

 

Thanks

 

Sorry to see you go, maybe I'll see you in the PNW this summer.

[flanders77]

@andesuma:

I am really shocked reading this topic! Please do not leave! After the discussion that took place before/after Bigbwii's leaving I thought the anti-raw propaganda would end. Raw foodists and those interested in raw food lifestyle need the raw part of the forum as a place where they can be sure not to be attacked continously. Please stay!I am sure Robert will find a way to protect the raw section.

 

@the other members involved:

Those responsible (you know who you are) for the constant bashing on raw foodists should really take a break from the raw section (or be forced to do so).

Every part of VBB&F is supposed to be positive and supporting. It is very sad and disturbing to see that vegans treat raw foodists exactly the same way non-vegans treat vegans so often.

 

@Robert:

Please step in!

[Zack]

Alright, I am an attacker of the RAW so I will say my piece.

 

Do you ever see me trash lean and green for being raw? No, because this guy actually realizes you need to eat to grow. This is (supposed to be) a bodybuilding/fitness forum, not a raw food detox fast for 30 days and get emaciated forum.

 

I don't think we need a raw section at all. It just invites this sort of thing. We don't have a "cooked food" forum here, why have a raw one?

 

Anyways, veganbodybuilding gets a bad rep for all the nutritional information here. Bodybuilders laugh at this site because apparently the belief here is "vegans don't need much protein to grow", among other things.

 

The raw section just throws all the credibility of the site out of the water with all the wacky information posted within it.

 

 

Raw is fine with me, as long as it goes along with the lines of what Robert created this forum for, but I don't think a separate forum is needed.

[JW]

whoaaaaa

time to take a deep cleansing breath.................

 

 

eating Raw is part of veganism

many athletes eat raw 100% or eat raw a significant portion of their diets

 

I am not 100% raw but I feel that the more raw I eat, the better I feel.

I'm finding the information in this section to be very informative.

 

Are we missing the FITNESS part of VBBF? Are you saying that nonbodybuilders should not apply?

there are many soccer players, cyclists, parkour enthusiasts here who look to this site as a haven of vegan lifestyle & fitness.

 

It's not all about getting big

[beforewisdom]

andesuma,

 

I was a raw foodist as a teenager. Later, when my education improved I learned that what raw food authors had to say about why raw foodism has benefits for some people contradicted very basic and very well known science. I simply don't agree with the conjectures behind raw foodism.

 

I think it is fair as well as not at all rude to write things like this and to ask people how they know what they know.

 

I don't usually read the posts in the raw food section so I can't say if people have been rude to you or not. However if people make claims that don't jive with facts other people will ask them about their claims.

 

You shouldn't take that personally, it is not about you. It is about the information.

 

FWIW, I think pointing false claims is fair, but I don't think it justifies being rude.

[Zack]

Are you saying that nonbodybuilders should not apply?

 

No.

[robert]

You are one of only a handful of members who's actually attended my competitions and watched me compete on stage. I'd love for you to still be involved with our website community.

 

I haven't read the full thread, I'm sick and up in Canada right now, so I don't know what has and has not been said, but I know in general, we do try to be supportive of everyone, but I also know that we have various trends here and some strong views here that encourage a variety of thoughts and opinions that get posted.

 

I'll be back home soon if you want to talk about it. You know where to find me.

 

All the best my dear.

[Neoveg]

andesuma,

 

I was a raw foodist as a teenager. Later, when my education improved I learned that what raw food authors had to say about why raw foodism has benefits for some people contradicted very basic and very well known science. I simply don't agree with the conjectures behind raw foodism.

 

I think it is fair as well as not at all rude to write things like this and to ask people how they know what they know.

 

I don't usually read the posts in the raw food section so I can't say if people have been rude to you or not. However if people make claims that don't jive with facts other people will ask them about their claims.

 

You shouldn't take that personally, it is not about you. It is about the information.

 

FWIW, I think pointing false claims is fair, but I don't think it justifies being rude.

 

 

But the same goes for talk about vegan food written by vegan authors.

So.... cooked vegan food good?

Raw vegan food bad?

False claims exist for alot of food groups ask the dairy couns

I liked the disertation on enzymes on your website too. Couldn't agree more. Just need to know the benefits of cooked over raw? If you slam nuts and veg protein that also includes tofu and seitan. I really don't think it is about information at all. Whatever the topic is the same guys have rhetoric for it. That is why I don't post much... maybe not at all now. I won't be missed just a NEW guy trying to find his way into a new area of his life. It is a turn off to see this kind of stuff in an area that tries to persuade others as to the benefits of being vegan.

[Zack]

There is nothing wrong with raw food. Raw food is good, and a necessary part of a good diet (except josh). What I am against is the dogma and outrageous claims...

 

Healthy raw food and healthy cooked food, can't go wrong!

[beforewisdom]

 

But the same goes for talk about vegan food written by vegan authors.

So.... cooked vegan food good?

Raw vegan food bad?

 

 

I don't agree with that Neoveg. There is a greater diversity among authors of vegan nutrition books than there is among raw food authors. The former group includes degreed health professionals making solid claims based on solid citations. The latter group does not.

 

The only places these days I see wacky claims for vegan diets ( excluding raw foodism )are in casual web board conversations or, sadly, in the starter kits that some AR groups publish ( veganoutreach's starter kit is written by a registered dietitian, it is the best )

 

Nobody claims that "raw vegan food is bad". They claim that the raw foodISM ( eating nothing but ) is likely not healthy or if it is safe over the long term, any alleged benefits are not due to the "enzyme theory".