offense74

The ridiculously low-fat diet that you suggest in the blog have already been tested in mass scale in the 80's as the diet of bodybuilders back then consisted of rice and cod (from nutritiondata). What is today known about n-3 and n-6 fats were not common knowledge back then and so people were just hysterically avoiding fat and were downing rice like there were no tomorrow. Fat (in general) were to blame for everything and in this hysteria the fat-nazis (McDougall, Esselstyn, Ornish, etc) formed their beliefs. It just so happens that they are also (esp. McDougall) some of the most stubborn people in the world and even though there are plenty of evidence from epidemiological studies indicating the health benefits of nuts and seeds as an addition to a healthy diet they don't budge. In fact, in his book, Dr Esselstyn says that we shouldn't trust the studies sponsored or made by the nut companies. The 7th day adventist study is not sponsored by "the nut companies" as aren't the other large population studies that had made the observation that nuts and seeds are good for you. This is a really hard thing for them to grasp. They all understand that fat is not just fat. A lot of research have gone in to studying this matter and it is today so painfully clear that not all fats are alike. Esselstyn and McDougall now both realize that you need n-3 and n-6 fatty acids something they probably wouldn't have done when their opinion on this subject was formed. To explain where the hatred of fats come from it's simple. The Framingham heart study saw a clear correlation between elevated cholesterol levels and heart disease. So everybody started to look for what was raising the levels. The first thing was obvious, cholesterol in food. Since then this has had various results after more closely studying it. It is not as simple as one would have hoped. Even so, fat-nazis still rambles about it today like it was the end of the world. Stubbornness. The next thing was fat, cholesterol being a fatty acid and all. And surely it seemed like there were a correlation between fat intake and elevated cholesterol levels. So the low-fat era of "food" begun and even though we see more and more today that processed food is linked to health problem, fat-nazis are still urging us to drink/eat defatted (processed) stuff (like low-fat soy milk for example). Then, as we realized there's more to fat than just fat, we blamed the saturated fats. This would mean that chocolate would be bad for cholesterol levels, right? Wrong. Even though I've heard Esselstyn putting the blame on (among other things) cocoa even after we know that the supposed data of chocolates cholesterol raising abilities isn't at all conclusive. Stubbornness. One funny thing is that if we had found earlier the different types of protein coatings for cholesterol we might have found ourselves in a processed low-protein diet instead, where we would have seen de-proteined meat on the shelves. The supermarkets of today would have looked very different. Today I'd say that (some) scientists are treating elevated cholesterol as a symptom of an underlying disease. Today we have strong hints from large population studies that processed food and animal foods seem to be a big problem. I believe however that McDougall and Esselstyn will take their fat theory to their grave. Science always progresses and new theories will pop up that will be stronger and more up to par with modern research as can be seen with the conclusions made in "The China Study" for example, where focus is slightly directed towards the whole picture than the macro nutrient juggling (as Joel Fuhrman puts it) of the past. I will say that I have the highest respect for all these guys and I read their books and listen to their speeches and all that and I admire them for doing their thing (which works quite well even if I think they sometimes blame the wrong things). Hat off to them! Really!! The bodybuilding thing. All possible diets have been tested when it comes to bodybuilding. Low-fat, moderate protein, and high carb have been tested before, as has the Atkins diet. It all makes me conclude that muscles are built in the gym (exception being steroids) and definition is achieved at the dinner table.

First, when it comes to health, I try to look at the correlations from epidemiological studies. If one can find (or can't find) a correlation there then I can see the point in looking for info from in vitro studies of the compounds possibly involved. For health, there are no correlations giving negative results from eating nuts and seeds. Second. When I started going to the gym in the 80's bodybuilders ate the diet veganmaster suggests. It was rice and and protein (usually in the form of lean fish). They got big back hen and they gat big now (on the atkins diet). That insulin is just going to "shove in" protein in the muscles sounds a little bizarre for me. I compare it with another analogue from McDougall about the calcium and bone strength. Just eating calcium (and vitamin D) is not going to strengthen your bones since the procedure that the body uses is way more complicated than that. We do not fully understand this procedure. There have been plenty of smart people that have spent their entire career to study cell metabolism. It's not simple. If it were then we'd have a cure for virus diseases and bodybuilders would get big as houses in a few months. The industry would find a way of selling a glucose pea protein goop to them and they would gladly drink it.

@veganmaster: Are you trying to make the point that nuts and seeds are bad for ones health?

Vacation. Book. Balcony. Sunshine. Watermelon.

You look like running strawberry ice cream cone with all that pink going on. Do people spontaneously come up to you and lick your face when you wear that?

MMe and michael posted at the same time

Cool However, I could bet a considerable amount of money that she is on the juice.

I use a program called cronometer for checking my daily calories (it's free). A day could consist of this: Breakfast: Smoothie with 3 bananas, 1 liter of almond, soy, coconut or other milk of choice (I've used soy in the example), 100g peanut butter, 2-3 mangoes. Lunch: 300g of whole grain rice, head of cauliflower, head of broccoli, other veggies if you want, 2 cans of coconut milk and 100g of peanut butter mixed in. Dinner: 2000g water melon (half a medium sized), 2-3 mangoes, 200g of cashews and the rest of the peanut butter. http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b145/offense74/Aday.jpg As you see, no need to snack. If you eat this you will gain weight. If you don't then add some chocolate (say 200g a day) as a snack. That will bring it up to 10000 kcal.

Oats don't have gluten. For grains there are the non grass ones (ie pseudo grains) like quinoa and buckwheat (among others). Also tubers provide you with good energy. Potatoes with hummus (or tahini) is a good energy loader. Dried fruits also pack it on. You mentioned nuts, eat lots of those. Write down what you eat and check the calories. In my experience some "ectomorphs" just don't like to eat and have trouble getting in above 2000 kcal. I'm not ecto and I could, without any problem, eat 5000 kcal per day just from whole foods.

Yeah, I use the cronometer to check my daily calories, vitamins, mineral and fat. Once I see where the big culprits lie (calorie wise) it's easier to cut them out since they're also (usually) are the ones with the least nutrients. And like you said if I don't check I'm way off base!

I actually like the story of B better. Is there something wrong with me?

Feeling tired is normal and good. However, in the western culture it's cool to be hyped up like bunny on crack since that implies that you are valuable and needed. To me this is just nuts. All organisms on this planet except for homo sapiens obesitus tries to preserve energy. When they don't eat, gather food to eat or are busy having animal sex, they sleep or at least rest. Being riled up all the time just for the hell of it have no evolutionary advantage, it's abnormal and instead of cheering coffee and cigaret hooked "hard working" people on we should really begin to question this sillyness. Also, the more activity the human race involve ourself in (in the context of western civilization) the worse off the planet will be. It's the ones who tries their hardest to not rest and sleep that will die in their 60's of heart disease and other stupid things. Have you read Healty at 100? No coffee drinking riled up executives there.... Just my 2 rials.

Tervetuloa!

They have more omega-6 then omega-3 so I wouldn't be surprised if someone drew that conclusion.

There are no references at the websites you keep referring to. Being able to create pdf's from text files hardly constitutes as science. That is what's going on at the "references" you're referring to. There is nothing of value said on these websites, just random stories without base. We've had long and hard discussions about this before at this forum and we've decided that in the raw section anything goes, might it be theories of enzymes or theories of ghosts and dragons.

I'm jus waiting for one of these threads to turn up at some other place on the 'net where again vegans will be laughed at. Can we keep the nonsense in the raw forum please?

So if I crave Coke and Snickers it must be good for me? The most reliable method of figuring things out about "reality" is science. After 2000 years of churches, creationism is what we got..... To be honest what I see more often than not is a misunderstanding of science. Science as an objective method never told us to eat 200g of protein per day, other factors decided that. Science never told us that agent orange was harmless. In this case the messenger should be killed. Gravitation works. Take your b-12.

You don't kill animals when you take b-12. b-12 is a substance that are made by certain bacteria. Remember, there are people who smoke and eat donuts who will live to 110. They are then used by people who eat crap to defend their habits. Same goes for vegans and b-12. Just because there are vegans who feel jolly good and are hap-hap-happy without b-12 it doesn't meen that most of us will benefit from not taking it.

Yes, it's all there. I even met a straight edge dude once in the sauna. I caught him bulkin by eating salted, roasted nuts in the sauna.

I use spirulina and chlorella. I'm not sure exactly why but it's very green and it makes me feel good about myself. As I understand there aren't that many studies done on any of them (I think there's even less on chlorella than spirulina) so it is a bit of a gamble.

Check it out:

I just tried the berry flavor with with soy milk and it was awesome. Ordered the other two flavors too!

Oh, no you didn't!!! Now I have to go voodoo on your ass! Prepare for pain.

I love reading your stories!!

I didn't know we still had an army??