veggieprincess

I cannot help but shake my head at the irony of this statement... Let me tell you why I am irked at many of the posts on this thread. The Original Poster was asking about something very specific... AN NPC SHOW... She did not ask how healthy you feel her diet was... She did not ask if she was doing the right thing by focusing on protein.... She did not ask us for a moral, ethical, unethical... healthy or unhealthy diagnosis of her diet... SHE ASKED ABOUT A DIET FOR AN NPC SHOW... something that I know a little about since I have many NPC figure competitor friends, I have met many NPC figure competitor coaches and I've had a 10 year obsession of getting my hands on anything and anything figure competitor related... Yet she was bombarded with peoples OPINIONS of protein. Yes, there is a very specific formula that 99% of competitors follow to get to their goals. That formula (along with a proper training program) will get anyone that follows it a physique that can stand proudly amongst the competitors on the stage. Is there more than 1 formula? Yes, but 95% of competitors do it with a 1 gram per pound of bodyweight minimum FOR THAT PARTICULAR DIVISION... NPC. This is not my OPINION. This is based on a formula that has BEEN PROVEN to work for people for decades. So who has earned the right to be annoyed? I'm so sorry... but I think I have (yes, that was a bit of sarcasm, in case it didn't translate.) Need examples. OK... well I'll give you an example of 100% of Omnis I talked to... it really is pointless for me to name names there... cuz we're not omnis... so I'll throw out a couple other examples.... Let me think... hmmm.. OH YES... Robert Cheeke! He doesen't talk about it on these threads but him and I had a long conversation about diet and he told me that when prepping for his SHOWS, he used a 1 gram per pound of bodyweight MINIMUM as a gauge for his protein intake during comp prep. Robert also told me about a Vegan competitor who does about 4 shows a year (he's on the board, but I can't remember his name) who tried to reduce his protein to compete and ended going back up to 2 grams per lb bodyweight because he lost so much size during his experiment. Denise Nicole...an actual figure competitor.. I have read several posts that her physique performs best on 1.5 grams per lb bodyweight. I haven't done a show but I got down to 12% - 13% bodyfat and a look that I was pretty happy with on 1 gram per pound of bodyweight. A couple of ACTUAL competitors whom have found me through myspace discussed their diet with me and they consume 1 to 1.5 grams protein per pound of bodyweight. Not too mention Vegan clients I have sent to my trainer. There are some that consume a little less to compete and I'm sure we could spend all day long debating the small majority that don't use this formula but most COMPETITORS do. So that is what irks me about so many posts in this thread... I've learn to just shake my head and stay positive at the dozens of threads that are posted monthly with people discouraging non-competitors to not focus on protein BECAUSE THEY AREN'T COMPETING. But when someone starts a post and says... "Hey... I'm an OMNI and I want to be a Vegan and I want to do an NPC show".... my god... why can't we listen to the actual words. I think I've posted a total of 2 posts ever in the Raw Food section because I'm not a raw Vegan. Nor am I a cyclist or martial arts enthusiast... so why the hell would I be posting on threads I know nothing about??? Yet, I do know a little something about this...therefore I am insulted that you're insulted New World Vegan... (Oh, and I forgot to add one... Lean and Green... you know, the highly respected RAW vegan on this board??? He contributes his significant mass muscle gains on his juice fast to the 200 grams of Spirulina he was consuming daily... )

ugh... I knew I'd get these kind of responses

Okay, so maybe not world famous... but I have yet to have one person try them that didn't absolutely luuuuuuv them. Serves about 10 8 medium Idaho potatoes WITH SKINS 3/4 to 1 container Trader Joes Soy Creamer Lots of Garlic Salt Small amount of coarse pepper 1 to 1 1/2 stick Nucoa margarine Hot Water for desired consistency Microwave the potatoes 2 at a time on high setting. 2 potatoes in my microwave takes about 8 to 9 minutes each, but just microwave them until they are mashable. Start mashing them 2 at a time while they are still hot. If you want to wait and mash them all at the end, keep them warm until all are complete (an oven on 200 degrees works if you're waiting until all the potatoes are finished. Mash 2 at a time with a few tbsp nucoa. start layering in salt and keep slowly adding the nucoa. when all potatoes are complete and mashed with all the nucoa, add some more garlic salt and half of the creamer amount. mash. then add the rest of the creamer. mash, then add the pepper. add the pepper. YOU ARE LEAVING THE SKINS ON. This is very important for the taste. If you peel them, I can't guarantee them being my World Famous Mashed Potatoes Now add more creamer and/or hot water for your desired consistency and whip them with a fork or sturdy whip. I like mine very lumpy but creamy. Great for holidays!!!! You're omni family members will NOT believe these are Vegan. Made them at an Omni event and everyone said they were their favorite menu item. After

pssst.... Many many people on this board don't have an avatar. I wish they did, but its a free country, and you all have your reasons for having one or not. But we have many regular posters here that I have no idea if they are a guy or a girl????? Names, like fallen_horse, threeloaves, bodybag (I think he's a guy).... all these ambiguous names that could be guy or girl...so please.... those with unisex sign-ons and no avatar, please post if you are a boy or a girl so when we are looking at your diets or workouts, we can give proper advice. Some I've figured out on my own, although it's very confusing. For example, bigmomma always has a girl on her avatar and the signon "bigmomma" but I'm pretty sure he's a guy. And blabette is a guy I think because his siggy says Bruce. So that is my question... guy or girl? (Those that are obvious don't need to post)

Tigerbella... I peak into your journal every time you post. And this morning, I so debated whether or not I should post on your journal because I think when people post on other's journals, it should be to be ENCOURAGING... So, here is my comment to you... I so admire your CONSISTENCY and DISCIPLINE on your journey to lose weight. Truly... I see that you are even more consistent than me, and I admire these qualities in people. I don't feel that a fruitarian diet is healthy and I think there are many on this board who feel the same way.. and that's probably why you had so many people post on here when you were eating lentil soup, grains and veggies as well. So do I continue to post on your journal if I don't feel what you're doing is healthy? I don't know... this is something that I grapple within myself because nutrition is such a passion of mine. I'm kind of just airing my thoughts aloud here.. But it honestly makes me sad when I see someone continually posting to their journal with no one commenting or responding or encouraging them. So I at least wanted to give you my reason of why I may pull back from posting on your journal. If people posted on my journal...I would want them to be encouraging...not debate my lifestyle.... so I wanted to post one more time to at least give you some compliments on your discipline and consistency. So I'll leave it at that

I think Lean and Green is the only person on the planet that actually can stomach straight spirulina without hurling. 99% of the rest of the population has a gag reflex that won't allow us to do that.

we do miss you... :0(

Diet is fine for the day, but cut out all that starch at nighttime if you're trying to burn fat. You're metabolism is slower at nighttime and all that starch your taking in at night is being stored as fat. Switch it to a stir fry with high protein tofu and tons of green veggies. Add a couple of healthy fats like a few almonds to the morning cereal and a small amount of sesame oil or nuts to the evening meal (not too many... but your body will USE small amounts of healthy fats and it can replace some of those starchy carbs) And I would keep the cardio, but do low intensity cardio instead of HIIT AFTER your workouts. HIIT may compromise the lean muscle tissue you are trying to maintain. Final tip, is I would start drinking a recovery/BCAA supplement during your workouts to maintain your muscle. My favorite is Xtend by Scivation.

there is a pretty lengthy thread in here that talks about typical diet. We all eat differently according to our goals. Maintain, build muscle, lose fat. This is what I would consider a healthy middle of the road maintenance diet to look like. Breakfast Muesli with raisins and a few tbsp almonds and berries Soymilk Snack: Low Sugar Energy Bar Lunch: Burritto on a sprouted tortilla filled with black beans, brown rice, avocado, lettuce and salsa Dinner: Curried lentils and potatoes with steamed spinach and a scoop of chocolate soy ice cream with sliced bananas for dessert This is probably what I would eat if I was EVER on maintenance. LOL

thanks Troy. I'll be ordering some.

There is a vegan bodybuilding yahoo group. You can look at the message list. It seems to be active and talking about body building http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/veganbodybuilding/messages HTH How funny, one of my clients is the most active member on there. I peeked at her Vegan Fitness blog too that I didn't know she had. Nice to see she's respecting my wishes on all 3 forums and not posting her diet. She is doing awesome! Thanks for the link

Translation: You don't know what you are talking about, you are talking about it to someone who knows what she is talking and has actual experience with the situation and that person is expressing frustration at your arrogance. Veggieprincess. Please don't leave. I feel for where you are coming from. It isn't PC to say so, but particular types of people end up in particular communities. Saying so doesn't mean that it applies to 100% of the people nor does it mean that you don't love the community. Veganism tends to attract people who cling to ideas they take a fancy too even if it is obvious that reality is not so. This will not stop such people from arguing endlessly for their position. When I was their age I did the same thing as many of the raw foodists and alternative health types on this forum. I swallowed the alternative health marketing PR hook, line and sinker. I read the books by people with no authority that contradicted learning. I quoted conspiracy theories when a well meaning person would call me on my B.S. Reality will not be denied. Sooner or later it comes to collect the bills. That happened to me, I grew up, and started learning how to learn. I think the same thing will happen with most of those types on this forum.....eventually. Please don't get frustrated and leave. I'm not gonna leave BW. I'm not in here as often cuz I have some other things going on... but it would take more than that to make me leave for good. "I'm out" just meant I had enough for the night These threads happen all of the time on here, and I pretty much don't get involved because there are too many, and some people genuinely don't get a kick out of debating. I'm passionate so I get riled up... but debating the same point over and over wastes energy. I got riled up because I do know about NPC, and this OP is not quite Vegan yet, or still on the fence about embarking on this lifestyle and its more important for me to have her get the right information then to be steered in the wrong direction like I was several years ago. I have talked to many Vegan bodybuilders who are currently competing and none of them did it on 50 grams of protein. The ones who are actually in the arena and competing did it with the foundation of tried and true bodybuilding principles that have been shown to work for many decades. And that is not low protein. It doesen't mean taking in as much protein as the omni's... but they sure the heck didn't get there by low protein intake either. Of course, anyone can find the extremely low number of EXCEPTIONS to the rule. That's exaclty what they are... genetic exceptions of people who can build muscle and get shredded easily without following principles that most bodybuilders use. I asked my trainer if he would come on here and post. He's been putting competitors on stage for nearly 10 years, but I told him he may have people arguing with him that they don't need to worry about macronutrients or protein... and he said, "Melissa... I would absolutely lose my mind and blow my brains out if people started telling me they don't need protein on my threads".... His point was that if he was going to come on here and try to help Vegans, he couldn't be bothered with that kind of nonsense. It's like DV said awhile back... on all non-Vegan Bodybuilding/Figure communities, there is no time wasted with these kinds of debates. Nobody is debating each other on whether or not they need proteins, essential fats, to keep fruit intake to a minimum, watch their starches, etc... because they are all on the same page. THAT is where the frustration comes in. Because so much time is wasted on these types of debates that people can't get past that to get to the useful information that could allow Vegan Bodybuilders and Vegan Figure competitors to be more abundant and to do well on stage and set a great example. Anyways BW... thanks for the support

ugh. Yes, by all means, she should just eat fruit, nuts and throw in a couple grains and enter an NPC show and she will be right up there in the NPC line-up I posted above. This is why DV only comes here about once a month now to post... or less. Because when people who actually might know a little about the division or show or diet that a poster is trying to acheive and you try to offer advice, it is followed by 4 or 5 people telling her to just eat fruit or just eat raw or just throw in some quinoa and she will do just fine in her show. It gets frustrating! Sorry, I just get tired of being so damn politically correct all the time around here. Sometimes it just gets damn frustrating and I have to vent, so I did! I'm out... (Regina... you CAN enter a show and do well as a Vegan competitor, but if you follow the advice of the above 3 posters, I am 99.999999999% sure that you will not be happy with your results after busting your ass for 12 weeks prepping for a show. You emailed me tonight about my program and contest prep... I might end up PM'ing you some free advice so you are not steered in completely the wrong direction and we don't lose you as a Vegan. I came to this board 3 years ago when I wanted to go Vegan and I was looking for Vegan protein sources and I was told to just eat grains. I didn't become Vegan for another year because of that advice because I knew from personal experience lots of grains would not get me cut. So I will see what I can do for you, but my original advice about Chuck's program still applies. I highly recommend him for your contest prep).

She would never be able to come close to placing in an NPC figure show at 50 grams of protein. She could get skinny... but never be competitive. Being "healthy" and placing in a show are two entirely different things. I'm not so sure about that. I too thought lots of protein were needed when I was reading bodybuilding magazines and stuff. But since many many weeks I'm eating less than 50 grams. I calculated, one day it was 20 grams (81% cho, 15% fat, 4% pro), sometimes it's about 30 grams. I'm eating only carb foods, with sometimes a bit of fats (avocado) or proteins (seeds or nuts), and my muscles of growing, with just some push-ups, sit-ups, bodyweight squats, and bicep curls with a 15 lbs, that's all I got. Now when I flex my bicep it touches the forearm, it is like 2 times bigger than 2 weeks ago. One can do whatever he or she wants, but I personally don't believe that anything unhealthy in the diet is beneficial for muscle growth or for anything else. Just a little extra proteins and extra calories is fine, for the hormonal effects, but no need to eat nearly 200 grams of proteins! Unless you want to lose all your bones. I never said she needed 200 grams of protein. But you are steering her in the wrong direction to think SHE could place at an NPC show on 50 grams of protein. Might be fine for you. I just think people should really read the actual question of the posters.... She is a female. She is preparing for an NPC show. You are doing her a disservice by telling her she'd do fine with her show, come in cut and ripped and ready to place on 50 grams of protein These are NPC Figure Girls. http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc14/penelopepope/IMG_6507_QFBAVJMIWT.jpg

She would never be able to come close to placing in an NPC figure show at 50 grams of protein. She could get skinny... but never be competitive. Being "healthy" and placing in a show are two entirely different things.

insulin spikes are more due to the kind of carb consumed than the amount. 2 small cookies will spike your insulin more than triple the amount of calories when consumed in oatmeal. It is the "bad" carbs that cause excess insulin to be produced.

I dieted down to about 13 - 14% bodyfat on 125 grams of carbs with no carb cycling, so its not necessary to go to 100 grams. But I could have never done it on my own. I hired a professional to help me figure it out.

great work on the walking consistency

It's official!!!! 284 Electoral Votes " title="Applause" />

Okay, yes...people diagnosed with Celiac disease or with wheat allergies should avoid this. Sorry for assuming you weren't...it just seems that I've come into alot of contact with people over the last few years that say they're giving up all wheat and gluten simply because they've heard it causes problems in others with these sensitivities or because they feel a little "bloaty" after these foods so they assume they're not digesting them. THAT'S the category I thought you fell into, so I apologize for assuming. Having said that, I appreciate that you're still trying to commit to a Vegan lifestyle given these limitations. It narrows your choices a bit, but is definitely doable. If you want to PM me, I can give you some tips and guidelines to help you get those pounds off, if you're interested

This is your second post about carbs... trying to avoid carbs, now you've taken out all gluten and wheat, but still want to eat Vegan. Sounds to me like you are putting up too many roadblocks for yourself. Now you say your taking out other foods. Don't you think your trying to be too strict and your body ends up rebelling and binging? You have to have some carbs. Losing 25 lbs is not an easy task to do without a game plan. Go on something like the Southbeach Online diet. You can filter it for Vegan choices. It's a good plan for someone looking for a solid diet. It sounds like you have two many contradictions and thoughts swimming through your head to be successful losing those 25 lbs on their own. There's no shame in that. I SURE AS HELL CAN'T WING IT. Everything for me needs to be measured out, portioned, etc or I won't lose fat. I'd hate to lose you as a Vegan just because you have alot of conflicting info. Sign up for the South Beach Diet or sign up for my online program (which is very affordable), so you can lose the weight you want Vegan style and then you can loosen the belt, have a few more carbs and be a Vegan for life!

Don't know how much you paid. But I think I get it for around $55 - $60 for the large conainter and about $20 to $25 for the small at my local nutrition stores. I don't know the cheapest place to get it, but just keep doing google searches to compare prices. Sorry, I can't remember if you're a guy or a girl (I think your a guy), so I'd also say double check bodybuilding.com's forum for the amounts most of the men are taking. I think its more scoops than is recommended on the container for men in order to see good results.

I believe that means TVP

Rainra... I feel it starts with YOU. YOU need to care. I need to care. I think the best thing we could do is be healthy, happy Vegans and spread the word more about HOW and WHY a Vegan diet helps the planet. I think we could spread the word by staying positive, being less judgemental. Being happy with people if they just want to "eat less meat" for now and not shove our message down their throat too fast, too soon. Becoming a hostile, angry Vegan I FEEL is damaging to furthering the cause and doing good. Finding ways to stay positive, to be hopeful, to always see the glass as "half-full", to support organizations who are trying to help, even if we don't agree with everything they say or do... having calm, non-hostile open conversations with people about your lifestyle... these are all positive steps in the right direction.... And for me, it is the biggest motivator to maintain my appearance and fitness. When I am out in public and I tell people I'm Vegan, do you know the most common response I get... "You look to healthy to be a Vegan". THIS IS WRONG! We need to start turning this image around. But when I here things I don't like, I never get annoyed or angry. I just use it as fuel to maintain a healthy vibrant image and help more people do the same.

Last I checked, they only make Carmel. It is super sweet. I wish it wasn't so sweet, but I really like the consistency. YOU OWE ME AN UPDATE GIRLIE!!! Email me and let me know how its going