tuc

Yep, L&G, Tuukka is correct. I should be back @ 100 % this week. The avatar is partly frightening because of filter I used in photoshop... but body proportions are unmodified, obviously! I should be bulking but I've been way too lazy to eat huge amounts of food. Well, I lost some of my belly but it'll come back as I start eating like a horse again. BTW, awesome profile!!! Loves it! Wed 25th February 1h 45mins bboying Thu 26th February - Deep squat, barbell: warm up @ 52kg, then 6 + 6 @ 84kg, 8 @ 68kg (still not that pretty reps :/ ) - Bicep curls, curl bar: 12 + 12 + 12 @ 40kg Also, I'm now SPROUTING! http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk250/tuc_finland/DSC05072.jpg http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk250/tuc_finland/DSC05070.jpg I got a power plug adapter for my automated sprouter today (I had to order an adapter from Hong Kong since they don't sell them in Finland) and now it's finally usable. I've never sprouted before, but now that it is just TOO easy (no soaking, just add water every 1-2 days and that's it) I will start eating sprouts every day! I'll keep you updated by taking daily pics of my harvest.

I'm in! http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk250/tuc_finland/hair_contest.jpg

Mon 23rd February - 2h dancing - 2h bboying Tue 24th February - 1h dancing - Bench press, barbell: 5+a + 4+a @ 86kg - Incline bench press, barbell: 6 + 7 @ 72kg - Dips: 15 + 15 From now on a=assisted (forced rep), f=fail. It's not a fail if I lift 98 % and my friend helps in the last rep.

Testo boosters don't work. They're expensive and in many cases there is no actual effect. Spend the same amount of money on protein, creatine and carnosine and you'll get much better results. Or spend it on proper food. Also, go pump your muscles instead of searching for information on how to cheat in natural bodybuilding.

Wed 18th February 2-3 hours dancing. Practicing for our school dance project. Thu 19th February Deep squats, barbell: warm up @ 50kg, then 6 + 6 @ 88kg, 15 @ 50kg Fri 20th February 2 h dancing Sat 21st February Just some minor training: Shoulder press, barbell: 3 x 10 @ 41kg Bicep curls, barbell: 3 x 10 @ 41kg

Yeah buddyyyy!! Back on it and soon back at my earlier weights. And soon after that, A LOT MORE! Tue 17th February - Bench press, barbell: warm up @ 50kg, then 5+f + 6 @ 84kg - Incline bench press, barbell: 8 + 6 @ 72kg - Dips: 17 + 17 @ bw - Standing shoulder press, behind neck, barbell: 7 @ 41kg I planned to do more shoulder presses but my back is still sore from sunday's training. I'm amazed how I got in bad shape so quickly. 2 weeks and my back gets sore for doing a couple of reps.

silly you didn't invent the internet, this guy did: http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/9731/theinternetoj7.jpg No he didn't. http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp But he did have a huge influence in the Internet since he pushed it forward in his politics.

That's bullshit. This is what it looks after 6 weeks: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/6_weeks_pregnant.png It's actually very similar to any other animal: http://www.geocities.com/truedino/embryo1.jpg

So you get your B12 from supplements. Vega contains cyanocobalamin, which is a completely artificial, crystalline B12 vitamer. It does not occur in nature. Sure but in Vega there's also Chlorella, which contains B12, right ? Spirulina is 4x more rich in b12 than raw liver, and chlorella contains even more than spirulina. I know scientists say we can't absorb this kind of b12, but who knows if next year they won't say they were wrong. Wrong. http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/comp-anat/comp-anat-7c.shtml

So you think the small lump of human cells which doesn't have a functioning brain or anything is more important than mental health of the woman who accidentally get pregnant? Getting a baby isn't a small thing. It is a huge physiological and mental effort. Would it be nice to throw up 9 months every morning because of pregnancy if you know you don't want the baby? Do you also consider emergency contraception as "killing a baby" since you talk about "it" dying in abortion?

Start a new topic here: viewforum.php?f=24 No rules what you have to write there.

Welcome! If you want to get an optimal diet as well as optimal workouts, start a training log here. Loads of people will read it and suggest if you can do something better! If you want to gain mass, go for large moves such as squats and deadlifts. You'll only need a few sets at a single workout and you'll gain loads of muscle real soon.

Welcome, Matt! Wow, I guess sometimes you really need something shocking to make things happen. Hope your father will be ok (and hopefully he'll cut meat from his diet). You'll be amazed how you'll get great results as a vegan even with moderately small amount of training if you just do it wise and eat enough. Good luck, remember that there are loads of people who will support you on your way here. Don't get stuck with any problem alone!

Welcome! I meant to write here how there are loads of people who will help you with your diet and then I planned to write stuff about protein but obviously people already showed that they will help you and everything really necessary is already said about the subject, so my input isn't really necessary. Anyway, I love nuts and seeds. I suggest eat loads of them and you'll be healthy as a horse. Ask your trainer to join this forum if he doesn't believe you can get protein as a vegan!

Welcome! Wow, you have quite a background! Loads of martial arts, which is obviously good for both body strength and mobility. I agree with I'm Your Man, I think your workout is probably really good but since we don't know anything about your nutrition, it's kinda hard to say anything. If you're stuck at gym, just eat more. It might bring some problems if you're competing since you might have to go to heavier category but you'll be as big as those guys so it won't matter that much.

BACK IN ACTION! I totally second you. It's GREAT to have a friendly competition going on all the time. It makes you push harder in every workout! I wish I could eat 4k calories a day... I've been a bit lazy and hardly had 3k kcal (3Mcal? ) a day. Yeah, the fever & stuff... I had really hard influenza for a whole week and this week has been a lousy training week since I've had to take real easy since I'm still feeling weak. Thanks John V, L&G and Robert! I'm really happy it's over! OK, the training: Wed 28th January 1h 45mins bboying Thu 29th January 1h 45mins bboying (as a substitute for my friend) Mon 2nd February 2h 15mins bboying (really light action since I felt sick already) Mon 9th February 2h 15mins bboying (really light since I still felt sick) Tue 10th February Light workout just to get some feeling back - Bench press, barbell: 12 + 12 @ 62kg - Incline bench press, barbell: 12 + 12 @ 62kg - Standing shoulder press, barbell: 8 + 8 @ 44kg Wed 11th February 1h 45mins bboying Sun 15th February - Deadlift, barbell: warm up @ 92kg, then 6 + 6 @ 130kg (287 lbs). Not bad but not good either - Bent-over row, barbell: 3 x 12 @ 70kg - Bicep curls, curl bar: 3 x 12 @ 40kg Next week: hitting it hard again!

Pro-life is a term established by retard fundamental christians. I hate that term. They are pro-medieval-religious-control, not pro life since most of them have no problems sending people to kill people in Iraq or eating meat. I am pro-choice all the way. Overpopulation is killing way too much people already and it is destroying nature around us really quickly.

I did not say all GMO's are ok. I just said that I do not judge the whole thing with GMO's! The other option is to kill people in starvation in the near future. I'd prefer raping DNA instead of humans. The genetic mutations made in laboratory can happen in nature but it would be very unlikely. Nothing says that viruses can't change just those genes. What makes it so much more dangerous to change the benefical genes than change them randomly? Nothing, that's what. Well, nature does mix them. Viruses change genes between species all the time. And think about all the incidents of mutations where genes are changed randomly! No. B12 deficiency is very common. It is because of a) lack of B12 in nutrition or b) because of absorption disorder. That's why some meat eaters are B12 deficient. My uncle is one B12 in intestines is not absorbed since it is produced too late. Vitamin D is produced in skin with sunlight. The amount you get from foods is FUCKING significant in countries where you don't get loads of sunlight around the year. What the hell butter has to do with this? This might come as a shocker but B12 and vitamin D in those are added. B12 in Vega is cyanocobalamin which is made in laboratories using fermentation and it is just the same substance as B12 in vitamin capsules or fortified soy milk. There are no natural B12 or vitamin D sources in those shakes. Vegan B12 is not counterproductive. It is effective but it is made in laboratory. And in northern areas it's like 8 months a year too little sunlight. I believe there is no place in Canada where you can ceep vitamin D levels up with sunshine only year round. I bet you can't provide a single proof that human race has lived with just fruits or vegetables in general ever. If primate sees a maggot, it eats it. All primates use some meat. For example some gorillas eat 97 % vegan food but the rest is still meat. Human race has used tools for millions of years. As long as we've been homo sapiens we've had very effective tools. It is measured in Ph (0-14 and 7 being neutral) and therefore using "20x" is nonsense and untrue. Anyway, we do have specialized enzymes, no matter what you say. We aren't that inefficient digesting meat. Many people eat loads of meat without major problems with digestion (they do get other problems but that's for eating too much of it). We are omnivores. Deal with it. All apes close to human eat meat. Which monkeys are you referring to? Well, it doesn't matter since all apes close to human eat meat. Your attitude is fucked up. It's like religion which condemns everyone but you and people who think like you. I tried to write something sensible but that argument blew my mind. Shit!

If any creature (yes that includes us) is inhabiting an environment that does not supply it with its essential requirments to live, then said creature is not meant to dwell in that environment. Its not rocket science. Thats why they are not any giraffes on the north pole taking fig leaf supplements. OK. Which one do you want me to do: Move away from my friends, family, apartment, job, university & other stuff or stop veganism? I NEED my supplements and so do you. Have you checked your vitamin B12 and D levels lately? Where do you live and are you sure you get enough all vitamins? I'm not vegan to be natural. I am vegan because it is ethically the right thing to do. There are hundreds of millions of people who live too north to get enough vitamin D from sun. Do you want them to be vegan and use supplements or leave the cities unhabited and move south in areas which are already packed full of people? It is a well proven fact that you are unhealthy without B12 (but it might take years before the really serious adverse effects take place). Veganism in northern countries with high hygiene is unnatural but so is the whole thing with high hygiene, living indoors and using computer. Why are you using computer? It's utterly unnatural! Start living all naturally or cut the bullshit where some things must be natural and others don't. Back to jungle! Go! I do NOT give veganism a bad presentation by saying that the scientific facts are right. You are doing it by saying that science cannot be trusted. You obviously do not have a clue what science is all about. I am an atheist who thinks one of the only things driving the world a better place to live is science. I am far from laughing since I am truly shocked that someone can claim that you do not need certain vitamins at all. B12 in intestines is produced too late to be absorbed by our body, which means that our bodies simply do NOT provide it. We have to get it from food or supplements! Why doesnt this surprise me.... Tuc, nature has been doing its own genetic engineering for billions of years.You think all of a sudden we are qualified to do it? O M G - are you sure there is no retardation here? WTF? Nature has been screwing with genes for billions of years randomly and everything worked out well. Now humans are doing the same thing with strickt observations before letting the plant to be used outdoors. The fact that nature has been doing it billions of years shows that it is VERY VERY unlikely that something really dangerous happens with GM. The genes in plants do not affect the one who eats them. You don't get pig genes by eating pig, and you don't become any more flowerish if you eat flowers. With cultivation you change loads of genes at once. Do you have a problem with that too? You would be amazed if you had to eat non-cultivated food. What on earth are you talking about retardation? I study in an appreciated university and I have published scientific papers. Don't you come talk me about retardation when you yourself disregard facts and believe what you think is right even though it is based purely on your own OPINIONS!

I don't judge anyone and I keep issues as issues, they're not personal. However, I think it's really really important that vegans acknowledge the importance of vitamin B12 and D (as well as some other nutrients) and that in many regions it is impossible to get enough of them without supplements. Anyone trying to claim other may end up killing or permanently damaging people. DaN can believe all the crap he wants but he can't deny these facts: in northern regions there simply is no way to get enough vitamin D from sunlight. It has to be taken from supplements or fish (or other animal sources). And our droppings are rich in vitamin B12, as well is dirt. If people ate enough dirt and/or poo then we might get enough B12 from natural sources. Since eating poo might get you in trouble, I'm perfectly fine with supplements. Especially since no adverse side effects have been seen using B12 supplements. The claim that our natural diet has been vegan for thousands of years lacks evidence. And the claim that B12 is not needed is VERY dangerous. BTW, I do fully not oppose GM. However, I think that it should have be researched VERY well before they started using it. It might give food to millions who would starve otherwise and increased crop per land area might preserve nature since it reduces the need to cut forests for farming. I think possible side effects are still better option than dying of starvation. Genes change between species via viruses naturally, so actually nature is doing its own genetic engineering all the time. And breeding and cultivation is genetic engineering as well.

I am not oversimplifying the issue. As told before, when MSG reaches stomach it is the same thing as free glutamine which can be found in many, many foods in abundance. I FAIL TO PROVIDE REPUTABLE SOURCES??? WTF! Wikipedia has loads of links to scientific studies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate You didn't answer this question. I stand 100 % behind my earlier statement. Without scientists touching the molecules in my food, I wouldn't be able to be a vegan. And being a vegan is way more important to me than eating 100 % natural food. And don't get me wrong, I do not oppose natural food. I just got home an automated sprouting machine I ordered from UK. But I have no problem eating some processed food along with unprocesessed food. Is that a bad joke? Or an insult? Both? I will NOT give up to people who fight against reason.

Hey I don't know why I bother to write here since you seem to ignore my post but this argument does not work. I really think you are oversimplifying the complexety of life when you say stuff like this. Everything is made of elements but depending on what elements are put together the substance will get different properties. To, again, compare this to chloroform, it's chloride (found in water and our body), hydrogen (well water and every organic molecule) and carbon (again, every organic molecule), does that mean it isn't dangerous? I'm not saying you are wrong in this issue, just that your arguing isn't accurate. The main reason why I don't like MSG is the sodium and the fact that some people are very sensitive to it. Since my dad experienced the chinsese restaurant syndrome a lot of times I don't see any reason to try my luck. I mostly oppose the use of monosodium glutamate because the industry uses it to make ing overprocessed food taste good and fool people. They do it with meat too, you can not find a MSG free meat slice in Sweden unless it's organic. They also add tons of sugar. And I don't get affected straight away by the meat but I'm opposed to the additives we find in food all the time. Sorry, I have fever and my level of attention is suboptimal. Do not compare to cloroform. It's nonsense. When you eat free glutamine or MSG, they will be converted to the same substance in no time because of the acidity in stomach. There have been HUGE amounts of studies and none say eating MSG is life threatening for humans unless used in amounts that are totally abnormal. Chinese restaurant syndrome has never been scientifically associated with MSG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_restaurant_syndrome#Chinese_restaurant_syndrome Also, if you buy raw meat it doesn't contain MSG. At least in Finland. It must be told if it has been added to food.

We need to have arguments, not just repeating results of studies. We need to base our arguments on our brain, intelligence, common sense and observation. "Huge amounts of studies led the scientist to a conclusion that it is not dangerous." What do you mean ? This is impossible. Which study proves that future generations won't be two-headed mutants due to Aspartame or MSG ? ... in fact, there's already lots of malformations happening, what study proved that it is not associated with MSG. Most males have low quality sperm and the size of penis is shrinking since a few generations. Scientific studies have their limits so we need to use our brain.It has just been told you that you get exactly the same glutamate and sodium in your body if you eat MSG or tomatoes+salt. If eating tomatoes and some salt lowers my sperm count and makes my penis smaller, f**k it. I love tomatoes so much that I'd still eat them. I am willing to take the risk that my lust for tomatoes creates 2 headed monsters in the future. MSG = sodium and glutamate = part of normal salt and part of tomatoes = perfectly safe if you don't use stupid amounts of MSG but then the food would probably taste like crap anyway. For me, the ability to use one's brain means that the person accepts scientific facts and makes one's conclusions based on hard evidence. MSG has been studied way more than half a century and since it really is pretty natural thing (made with fermentation and the substance itself is in abundance in many foods and our own body). You just can't blaim MSG for the things that pollution and other stuff has made to humans.

Without scientist tampering food on molecular level there wouldn't be B12 or vitamin D fortified products for vegans. Since for most people it is impossible to get enough vitamin D without eating fish (since people live far north with not enough sunshine) there are 2 options: 1.) Let's keep the scientists and their molecular level things. 2.) Most of the vegans have to quit being a vegan since it is virtually impossible to get enough vitamin D or B12 from plant sources in many countries. Which one would you prefer? Oh come-on! That is just the scaremongering I hate. DDT, benzene ect.... and just to make it clear: I do not think that aspartame is dangerous either. It's just another hoax. Huge amounts of studies led the scientist to a conclusion that it is not dangerous. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy (however, I do not buy anything with artificial sweeteners) MSG is the same thing as glutamate after digestion, as described before. That means that eating MSG at the amounts the chinese eat it is as dangerous as eating 2 tomatoes per day. Stop worrying about nonsense and concentrate on things that really matter. Animal abuse, cutting down rainforests, climate change, extinctions... those are the things people should use their time on. NOT scaring people about something that has NOTHING to scare of. Yeah, you can tell people it is healthy to eat raw and unprocessed food. But PLEASE do NOT use utterly nonscientific arguments since it gives the whole veganism a bad name. We have to base our arguments on facts and studies, not scare people and tell them lies. The only scientists I find incompetent, ridiculous and pathetic and with uncertain motivation and lack of scientific methods are the ones I see on pages which spread rumors about everything being super toxic and dangerous. MSG is among the most studied substances just because of the controversy created by front groups which choose the facts which drive their own interest, not the facts which show what the whole thing is all about. I also think your anti-science arguments are invalid. If the facts don't prove your point, you say that the facts are wrong. What a way to win a conversation.

I second that, a great post! IYM, it's just the savoury taste that comes from glutamate. Glutamate is just the thing that makes tomatoes so good.